I am new to water jet technology and am currently trying to decide which machine to purchase. I have looked at Mitsubishi, WardJet, OMAX, FLOW and CEJet. Any advice on which machine to go with. I like what I've seen with the Ward machine just afraid of not getting good service due to them not having distributors and only having remote support via a web interface with the machine. The FLOW machine seems to be good but its pricey. I don't know a lot about CEJet but am interested in their ability to customize the machine to fit my application. Any advice would be helpful.
vichor said
Jan 19, 2015
I think it depends on what kind of the job you need the waterjet to do.
If you are a manufacture and you care about the productivity, Flow and OMAX are both suitable for you.
If you are a job shop and you care about the cost, you can try China waterjet such as Dardi, VICHOR. They can do the same job with a slower speed.
miljonis said
Mar 30, 2015
Please be careful with Dardi waterjet in China! We are European company and bought the waterjet from DARDI International Coproration in December 2013, we received it end of October 2014 and the whole ordering process has been very stressful. They have sent us wrong waterjet pump and with the machine we received also lots of problems to be solved. So, they do not send the products that you order and no after service at all, they ignore the questions and we do not have manuals to operate. So you never know what you are going to get from DARDI!
Like many others we had a question what kind of waterjet to buy. In our list we had APW, Teenking, Dardi and a few more.
This was not our first machine to order for our factory from Chinese companies. We have had all smooth and reliable orders, very satisfied with the products, all just as decribed. We choosed DARDI as the largest and best manufacturer in China according to internet articles and their involvement in FLOW waterjet. They also sent us photos of how they producing waterjets to FLOW to raise our trust to them. But this has been the worst contact ever. I briefly describe about the scams that this company has made after the point we paid the first deposit.
At the beginning of December 2013 we started the waterjet machine ordering process from DARDI. End of the year 2013 we made the final contract and we paid to DARDI the first deposit. Now the problems started. On Jan 08, 2014, Amond Sun from DARDI International Corporation Ltd. said they cannot produce the waterjet that he offered. He began to ask more money for another machine and changed the configuration for worse comparing to the agreement we made on Dec 2013. We did not agree and we asked many times to return us the the payment and we sent them the bank details. Then Amond wrote us, that according to China law DARDI can not return the money, he answered:
„Maybe you know that if we send the USD dollars to other countries ,we need to import something equal the same value. It is not allowed to send USD dollars to other countries in China without import something ,we think you know that well and the situation of Chinese Foreign currency policy.“
Then we contacted to Economic Office of Chinese Embassy. Of course there is no that kind of law! Even if we had a chance to put DARDI to the Untrusted Namelist as the Embassy offered, we did not wanted to lose the money that we had already paid. Since they were not going to pay us the money back, we had to choose the machine that they offered and we agreed.
Meanwhile when we asked some photos of the waterjet, we saw that there was no parts we ordered, they did not inform us of such an important change of the original configuration, they changed it without giving us any notice about it, the question was in control system. We ordered ESA 500pc, but they used LG and EVOK.
When we asked, where is ESA screen/panel and that it is not what we ordered, then Amond Sun said it is ESA control panel! We contacted to ESA producer in Italy, send them the photos what DARDI sent us with the product numbers and ESA Italy wrote us that it is not their PC and panel.
After getting confirmation, we sent their answer to Amond, he said „It is right that the screen is not ESA ,it is LG screen. Relax yourself“.
We did had a question is this person who acts so rude really working in DARDI? DARDI confirmed it was him.
They finally corrected the ESA panel after we contacted to the higher manager and we got the letter on 3th of June 2014 from Mr. Warren Hu (Global OEM Project Manager/Country Manager) from DARDI:
„We have received your letter of May 30th, informing us that DARDI has caused a lot of damage to our production and created such a delay. Firstly, We are very sorry for any inconvenience caused by this trouble. Upon receipt of your letter, we have given this matter our immediate attention. We have studied your blow email said very carefully. We will give you a final response soon after we check all facts with related person in this case. Since we value your business, we assure you similar errors will not occur again.“
So they agreed with all the false behavior and were sorry about it. After that we waited until the machine was ready.
End of this October 2014, we finally received the water jet with the screen ESA S 560 Touch screen, but the ESA screen seems to be used, because there was small damages on the screen and it shows the module error, the touch screen does not work, it doesn't sense the touch correctly. Nevertheless, we received the waterjet with the wrong much more cheaper waterjet pump! Before the shipping, in our last conversations with Amond Sun we pointed out to check if everything what we ordered according to Proforma Invoice, Quotation and e-mails, especially pointed out if the 420Mpa pump. He confirmed. We have ordered the machine with a pump DIPS7-C50H Hercnles 420Mpa, but DARDI sent us 3040 380Mpa pump, it is also written on only paper in Chinese language that came with the machine.
Amond answered so:
„Some documents we write on the paper about 380mpa just hope you do not let the machine work in a high pressure. Otherwise the high pressure seal and low pressure kit will break easy. If you were familiar with the waterjet industry you will not ask that stupid question.“
Ignoring again the rude behavior from Amond, we contacted again to Mr. Warren Hu. He answered:
„Firstly, I check all attached documents(Invoice/Quotation/Contract) ,but without any signature and stamp on it from Dardi. so we couldn’t confirm the documents’ authenticity. Secondly, where you got this below paper? Or who give you this below paper?“
He was asking about the paper in Chinese language. It was a suprise to them, how this paper got to our hands.
Previously, during the production process we asked to sign and stamp the documents from Amond as the offer maker, instead of this he insisted the stamp and signatures from us. Amond finally wrote that he will send them. We expected to come with the machine, but no other documents came but only one in Chinese language.
None of the e-mails we have written with DARDI is not mentioned any other pump than 420mpa, which they have suggested to us themselves - the model DIPS7-C50H, which is shown also in the e-mails, quotation, Proforma Invoice, Commercial Invoice and bank transfers.
That waterjet came also without manuals, they have only included an electrical scheme. There are no elementary manuals, how to operate the machine.
The warranty is for 1 year, we cannot even speak about the warranty, we can dream on about it.
The pump what we received, have inside all the labels removed (with screwdriver scratches on), so that you will not be able to identify what is the product. As well as the pump body has no markings of the model. It has not that power we paid for, it is made of cheaper parts and is wrong model. To conclude this, this is a deliberate and intentional fraud.
It is not the full list, this is only a brief overview what we have experienced with dealing with DARDI, luckily all our coversation is in written form – this cannot hide or say it was not that way. DARDI has caused a lot of damage to our production and created such a delay. The waterjet delivery date was within 50days after the contract goes into effect, but this has been long and very difficult process that has been lasing almost a year! It does not end and it continues. Beginning was all nice and very welcoming, but all the scams started after the first payment.
On the last day of year 2014, we were in contact to Amond Sun and he replied that he is not that Amond Sun who made the contract with us and he did not sold us the waterjet and the seller was a company from Iceland! He even sent us some kind of fictional contact.
Then we contacted to the Dardi owner Chen Bo scecretary Jiang Ginger (jyz@dardi.cn ), to whom we sent all the correspondence between Dardi and us. Ginger presumably presented it to Dardi management board.
Meanwhile, the Newcam password did not work. As we did not receive any response from Dardi about this, we had to contact Newcam Taiwan and finally with their help Dardi sent us working passwords for Newcam.
Probe input does not work as well. We contacted to ESA Italy and they have been very helpful and with them we have tried to solve the problem, checked the settings etc. So, CNC ESA Kvara is damaged, this refers to the fact that they have sent us damaged CNC.
Now, after 4 months passed, Dardi have a new version of the case. Here is Mr.Gao zhigang, International Business manager from DARDI INTERNATIONAL CORPORATION answer in March 2015:
First thanks for you providing us the all documents,depend on it,we have found out the truth of the incident as:
Dardi international corporation lt,this is amond's private company
Dardi international corporation, it is our company
Amond sign a contract with you for the machine DWJ3020BB-X4/C50H,and you wire all to him only.
But Amond change the contract between you and Dardi,in the contract is another machine: dwj3020bb-x4 / c40t, Dardi according to the wrong contract to make the machine to you, so that you get the wrong pump,this is the truth .Amond deceive you, also to deceive Dardi, all the fault in Amond one. our company is blame Amond.
Dardi company is an international company, we will not cheat any one customer, we will discuss with you, resolved this matter。
what about the machine,is the pump working now well ?
But they forgot one thing that we have sent the first e-mail to Dardi official e-mail address sales@dardiwaterjet.com
Now, several weeks passed and again they do not answer back.
I am new to water jet technology and am currently trying to decide which machine to purchase. I have looked at Mitsubishi, WardJet, OMAX, FLOW and CEJet. Any advice on which machine to go with. I like what I've seen with the Ward machine just afraid of not getting good service due to them not having distributors and only having remote support via a web interface with the machine. The FLOW machine seems to be good but its pricey. I don't know a lot about CEJet but am interested in their ability to customize the machine to fit my application. Any advice would be helpful.
If you are a manufacture and you care about the productivity, Flow and OMAX are both suitable for you.
If you are a job shop and you care about the cost, you can try China waterjet such as Dardi, VICHOR. They can do the same job with a slower speed.
Like many others we had a question what kind of waterjet to buy. In our list we had APW, Teenking, Dardi and a few more.
This was not our first machine to order for our factory from Chinese companies. We have had all smooth and reliable orders, very satisfied with the products, all just as decribed. We choosed DARDI as the largest and best manufacturer in China according to internet articles and their involvement in FLOW waterjet. They also sent us photos of how they producing waterjets to FLOW to raise our trust to them. But this has been the worst contact ever. I briefly describe about the scams that this company has made after the point we paid the first deposit.
At the beginning of December 2013 we started the waterjet machine ordering process from DARDI. End of the year 2013 we made the final contract and we paid to DARDI the first deposit. Now the problems started. On Jan 08, 2014, Amond Sun from DARDI International Corporation Ltd. said they cannot produce the waterjet that he offered. He began to ask more money for another machine and changed the configuration for worse comparing to the agreement we made on Dec 2013. We did not agree and we asked many times to return us the the payment and we sent them the bank details. Then Amond wrote us, that according to China law DARDI can not return the money, he answered:
„Maybe you know that if we send the USD dollars to other countries ,we need to import something equal the same value. It is not allowed to send USD dollars to other countries in China without import something ,we think you know that well and the situation of Chinese Foreign currency policy.“
Then we contacted to Economic Office of Chinese Embassy. Of course there is no that kind of law! Even if we had a chance to put DARDI to the Untrusted Namelist as the Embassy offered, we did not wanted to lose the money that we had already paid. Since they were not going to pay us the money back, we had to choose the machine that they offered and we agreed.
Meanwhile when we asked some photos of the waterjet, we saw that there was no parts we ordered, they did not inform us of such an important change of the original configuration, they changed it without giving us any notice about it, the question was in control system. We ordered ESA 500pc, but they used LG and EVOK.
When we asked, where is ESA screen/panel and that it is not what we ordered, then Amond Sun said it is ESA control panel! We contacted to ESA producer in Italy, send them the photos what DARDI sent us with the product numbers and ESA Italy wrote us that it is not their PC and panel.
After getting confirmation, we sent their answer to Amond, he said „It is right that the screen is not ESA ,it is LG screen. Relax yourself“.
We did had a question is this person who acts so rude really working in DARDI? DARDI confirmed it was him.
They finally corrected the ESA panel after we contacted to the higher manager and we got the letter on 3th of June 2014 from Mr. Warren Hu (Global OEM Project Manager/Country Manager) from DARDI:
„We have received your letter of May 30th, informing us that DARDI has caused a lot of damage to our production and created such a delay. Firstly, We are very sorry for any inconvenience caused by this trouble. Upon receipt of your letter, we have given this matter our immediate attention. We have studied your blow email said very carefully. We will give you a final response soon after we check all facts with related person in this case. Since we value your business, we assure you similar errors will not occur again.“
So they agreed with all the false behavior and were sorry about it. After that we waited until the machine was ready.
End of this October 2014, we finally received the water jet with the screen ESA S 560 Touch screen, but the ESA screen seems to be used, because there was small damages on the screen and it shows the module error, the touch screen does not work, it doesn't sense the touch correctly. Nevertheless, we received the waterjet with the wrong much more cheaper waterjet pump! Before the shipping, in our last conversations with Amond Sun we pointed out to check if everything what we ordered according to Proforma Invoice, Quotation and e-mails, especially pointed out if the 420Mpa pump. He confirmed. We have ordered the machine with a pump DIPS7-C50H Hercnles 420Mpa, but DARDI sent us 3040 380Mpa pump, it is also written on only paper in Chinese language that came with the machine.
Amond answered so:
„Some documents we write on the paper about 380mpa just hope you do not let the machine work in a high pressure. Otherwise the high pressure seal and low pressure kit will break easy. If you were familiar with the waterjet industry you will not ask that stupid question.“
Ignoring again the rude behavior from Amond, we contacted again to Mr. Warren Hu. He answered:
„Firstly, I check all attached documents(Invoice/Quotation/Contract) ,but without any signature and stamp on it from Dardi. so we couldn’t confirm the documents’ authenticity. Secondly, where you got this below paper? Or who give you this below paper?“
He was asking about the paper in Chinese language. It was a suprise to them, how this paper got to our hands.
Previously, during the production process we asked to sign and stamp the documents from Amond as the offer maker, instead of this he insisted the stamp and signatures from us. Amond finally wrote that he will send them. We expected to come with the machine, but no other documents came but only one in Chinese language.
None of the e-mails we have written with DARDI is not mentioned any other pump than 420mpa, which they have suggested to us themselves - the model DIPS7-C50H, which is shown also in the e-mails, quotation, Proforma Invoice, Commercial Invoice and bank transfers.
That waterjet came also without manuals, they have only included an electrical scheme. There are no elementary manuals, how to operate the machine.
The warranty is for 1 year, we cannot even speak about the warranty, we can dream on about it.
The pump what we received, have inside all the labels removed (with screwdriver scratches on), so that you will not be able to identify what is the product. As well as the pump body has no markings of the model. It has not that power we paid for, it is made of cheaper parts and is wrong model. To conclude this, this is a deliberate and intentional fraud.
It is not the full list, this is only a brief overview what we have experienced with dealing with DARDI, luckily all our coversation is in written form – this cannot hide or say it was not that way. DARDI has caused a lot of damage to our production and created such a delay. The waterjet delivery date was within 50days after the contract goes into effect, but this has been long and very difficult process that has been lasing almost a year! It does not end and it continues. Beginning was all nice and very welcoming, but all the scams started after the first payment.
On the last day of year 2014, we were in contact to Amond Sun and he replied that he is not that Amond Sun who made the contract with us and he did not sold us the waterjet and the seller was a company from Iceland! He even sent us some kind of fictional contact.
Then we contacted to the Dardi owner Chen Bo scecretary Jiang Ginger (jyz@dardi.cn ), to whom we sent all the correspondence between Dardi and us. Ginger presumably presented it to Dardi management board.
Meanwhile, the Newcam password did not work. As we did not receive any response from Dardi about this, we had to contact Newcam Taiwan and finally with their help Dardi sent us working passwords for Newcam.
Probe input does not work as well. We contacted to ESA Italy and they have been very helpful and with them we have tried to solve the problem, checked the settings etc. So, CNC ESA Kvara is damaged, this refers to the fact that they have sent us damaged CNC.
Now, after 4 months passed, Dardi have a new version of the case. Here is Mr.Gao zhigang, International Business manager from DARDI INTERNATIONAL CORPORATION answer in March 2015:
First thanks for you providing us the all documents,depend on it,we have found out the truth of the incident as:
Dardi international corporation lt,this is amond's private company
Dardi international corporation, it is our company
Amond sign a contract with you for the machine DWJ3020BB-X4/C50H,and you wire all to him only.
But Amond change the contract between you and Dardi,in the contract is another machine: dwj3020bb-x4 / c40t, Dardi according to the wrong contract to make the machine to you, so that you get the wrong pump,this is the truth .Amond deceive you, also to deceive Dardi, all the fault in Amond one. our company is blame Amond.
Dardi company is an international company, we will not cheat any one customer, we will discuss with you, resolved this matter。
what about the machine,is the pump working now well ?
But they forgot one thing that we have sent the first e-mail to Dardi official e-mail address sales@dardiwaterjet.com
Now, several weeks passed and again they do not answer back.